INTERVIEW WITH MASTER MANZO SHITAMA

An Interview with
MASTER MANZO SHITAMA
16th Headmaster of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu

Mr. Robert Freitag, Mr. Gary Rohen, and Mr. Joseph DeLuca, of Sosuishi ryu, conducted this interview on November 11, 1995 at the New York Seibukan, Queens, New York. Translating for this interview was Mr. Masayuki Kirimura and Mrs. Yoshie Fleming, wife of the late Sensei Nelson (Mitch) Fleming. This was Shitama Sensei's first visit to the United States

*Mr. Freitag:*	*Sensei, could you briefly discuss the history and origin of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu?*
*Master Shitama:*	Sosuishi-ryu was founded in 1650 by a samurai of Bungo Takeda named Futagami Hannosuke Masaaki, a master of Takenouchi-ryu . . as well as other schools. He taught another samurai of Bungo Takeda, Shitama Matahichi, whose family, whether by direct lineage or by adoption, have been the masters of Sosuishi-ryu ever since. In 1905, Aoyagi Kibei, the 14th inheritor, attended a meeting in Kyoto at which the masters of various Jujutsu schools gathered with Kano Jigoro, the founder of Judo, to decide the techniques of Kodokan Judo. Aoyogi Sensei broke from the traditional teachings of Sosuishi-ryu at that time... and began to train students in Kodokan Judo. He taught Jujutsu in the form of kata, only. This continued throughout the reign of my father, Shitama Shusaku. In 1925, my father became the 15th inheritor. He graduated from the Judo Department of the Butokukai, in Kyoto in 1930. He also held the rank of Hachidan (8th Dan) in Kodokan Judo. He taught competition Judo at that time... and in fact, a person had to possess a Black Belt or Kyu grade in Judo, by the Kodokan, before he could attain the equivalent grade in Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu. My intention is to return to the traditional teachings of Sosuishi-ryu. Sosuishi-ryu is true Bujutsu... it is not a sport and it is not just kata. It consists of realistic self- defense techniques as Dennis Fink Sensei teaches here in New York, and includes Ukemi (break falls); Atemi-waza (striking techniques); Kansetsu-waza (techniques of twisting and breaking of the joints); Nage-waza (throwing techniques); and, Kata (forms) that are unchanged for almost 350 years. In 1966, I became the 16th inheritor upon the death of my father. I would like to point out that my father, Shitama Shusaku, was the first of the Shitama line to teach Sosuishi-ryu to non-Japanese. I am the first of the Shitama line to actually visit the United States.
*Mr. DeLuca:*	*Sensei, is there a difference between Sosuishi-ryu and Sosuishitsu-ryu Jujutsu?*
*Master Shitama:*	(Laughter) There is absolutely no difference between the two... they are one and the same. On July 5, 1963, the "Nippon Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu Kai" (association) was established at a meeting at the Sekiryukan in Fukuoka, Japan. This was ... and still is ... the "official" association of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu. No other association is authorized by the Shitama family to represent and award promotions in Sosuishi-ryu. At that time... in 1963, the spelling was changed from Sosuishitsu-ryu to Sosuishi-ryu (NOTE: The Kanji [Chinese Characters used in Japan] can be read either way) so Americans could more easily pronounce Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu. Also, the name of the association was changed at that time to the "Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu Kai". A constitution and by-laws govern it and I, as the 16th inheritor of Sosuishi-ryu serve as the Director. I issue all membership and Black Belt certificates. Although the Hombu Dojo is in Fukuoka, the International Headquarters is here in New York City. The International Director is Dennis Fink Sensei, Kuraizume. I appointed Fink Sensei to this position upon the death of Fleming Sensei in 1987. Fink Sensei is authorized by me to represent the Shitama family on all matters regarding Sosuishi-ryu outside of Japan. Sosuishi-ryu in Australia is monitored directly by me, however.
*Mr. Freitag:*	*Could you tell us the origin of the name Sosuishi-ryu?*
*Master Shitama:*	The Yoshino River began with one drop of water. As the river became stronger or larger, a mountain separated it into two rivers. Each new river now ran even stronger. One river represents strength, and the other represents technique. After these rivers passed the mountain that separated them, they again joined and became even stronger than before. Just like one river coming into two make it stronger, combining a person's strength (one river) with technique (the other river) will make you even stronger. Sosuishi or Sosuishitsu means taking two and putting a new whole together that is even stronger.
*Mr. Rohen:*	*Sensei, where is Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu taught in the world today?*
*Master Shitama:*	In addition to Japan... As you know, Sosuishi-ryu is taught at the International Headquarters located here at the New York Seibukan, as well as one other recognized Sosuishi-ryu Dojo in Portland, Oregon... which is operated by Randy Cantonwine. Pat Harrington who studied at the Sekiryukan with my father also teaches Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu in Australia. I would like to see the techniques of Sosuishi-ryu taught in Europe, as well. While I would like many people to benefit from our teachings, I would also like to maintain the purity of Budo...by that, I mean that I want good people, not just many people.
*Mr. Freitag:*	*What is the philosophy of Sosuishi-ryu?*
*Master Shitama:*	The components of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu are technique and strength. When a student begins to train he is told to relax, go slowly, and develop good technique. Once he or she demonstrates knowledge of sound technique, the student is told to increase his or her speed. This results in increased strength or power. This is what Masanori Sensei meant when he talked about twin rivers. One river is strength and the other is technique. When the two rivers are combined you have sound technique coupled with power. To better explain, So means two or twin, *sui* means river and *shi* or *shitsu* means to hold or bring together. This philosophy is integrated into our program of instruction and explains why new students cannot learn too fast, but must learn slowly under the watchful eye of their sensei.
*Mr. DeLuca:*	*Could you explain the ranking system of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu?*
*Master Shitama:*	The Menkyo (license) system was used to grade all martial artist prior to the founding of Kodokan Judo by Kano Jigoro. Sosuishi-ryu, was founded in 1650 and has since been passed down from father to son... it did not change to the Dan system of the Kodokan. Although modified slightly, to equate to the Dan system, we still award grades according to the Menkyo system. For example, we use the grade Sho-Mokuroku (1st Degree Black Belt) . . which means that a student has learned all the required techniques... but it is really just the beginning of learning. The techniques must then be refined and fully understood. This can only be accomplished after many years of training under a qualified sensei. The highest grade to be achieved is Kuraizume, which means the rank of dignity or completion, the peak or summit. To me, this means the mastery of every technique and the ability to teach other people. I promoted Fink Sensei to Kuraizume, and he serves as a model through his accomplishments, knowledge, and application of Budo in daily life. Above Kuraizume is Menkyo. This entitles a person to go out on his own and start his own school or system where he would be the Dai Menkyo, or headmaster. This essentially, is the equivalent of 10th Dan. Only one person may hold this grade at a time.. As the 16th inheritor of Sosuishi-ryu, I am the Dai Menkyo of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu.
*Mr. Rohen:*	*What did Judo take from Sosuishi-ryu?*
*Master Shitama:*	Kano Sensei felt the need to maintain ties with Koryu Bujutsu. He used Sosuishi-ryu as an old system to illustrate the connection between Judo and Jujutsu. Additionally, Kano Sensei kept some of the Jujutsu kata in Kodokan Judo, for example, the Kime-No-Kata, also known as Shinken-Shobu-No-Kata (combat forms). The Kime-No-Kata is designed to teach fundamentals of attack and defense in actual combat situations, but are banned in randori. They are divided into two main groups: Idori, where the basic position is kneeling and Tachiai, where techniques are executed in a standing position. There are other kata as well.
*Mr. Rohen:*	*What waza makes Sosuishi-ryu different from other styles?*
*Master Shitama:*	We include Iai, as part of our techniques. However, we teach Iai-jutsu as opposed to Iai-Do. This is more practical, as it is taken from actual fighting techniques. Some of the differences... are cutting with the point of the blade facing up, and the tip of the blade is kept up during downward cuts.
*Mr. DeLuca:*	*Sensei, you have a young son. Does he train; as he will one day become the 17th inheritor of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu?*
*Master Shitama:*	I have one son named Shusaku, after my father. He is now a young boy and has just begun his training. However, if something would happen to me now, Dennis Fink Sensei would become the 17th headmaster, until my son becomes mature enough to assume his rightful place in the history of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu. He would then become the 18th headmaster.
*Mr. DeLuca:*	*How would you like to see Sosuishi-ryu evolve during the coming years?*
*Master Shitama:*	Next year, I intend to only work in the Dojo. Currently, people train mainly in Judo at my Dojo. You must understand... that Judo is part of the education system, so it is very popular. However, people are afraid that they may get injured during Judo training and even more so, during Jujutsu training. My primary objective is to integrate Jujutsu into Judo. I want to teach real techniques. Judo is a sport. If you throw someone to the mat you get a point. This is not self- defense or real fighting. During my trip here to the United States, I have observed how Fink Sensei teaches real self-defense training without injury. I would like to initiate that type of training in Japan. I believe Budo is very much alive today. We must teach etiquette as part of the principles of Budo. Students of Sosuishi-ryu Jujutsu must also demonstrate good character... in addition to their techniques. Essentially, if the student has a good heart, then his technique will also be good. However, our techniques must be slightly modified to adapt to our changing environment, as well as the weapons that we must defend from. The problem with many Dojo is that they teach attacks from 200 years ago. A sensei has the responsibility to teach current techniques so that his students will not be injured on the street.
*Mr. DeLuca:*	*Thank you, Shitama Sensei.*

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